Talk:Kevin Kelly
Status? :I don't like to jump to conclusions typically but if there's blood on the wall, isn't that enough evidence to be considered a fatality on here? Plus, why would they keep him alive when he broke the agreement by coming clean??--Gunman6 (talk) 20:47, February 2, 2013 (UTC) ::The point is, we haven't seen his dead body. He could be dead, but his body isn't shown on-screen after his disappearance. I hope you understand that. --Station7 (talk) 21:23, February 2, 2013 (UTC) :Well, the issue with this is that we haven't required hat there be a corpse each and every time a death on the show has occurred. For instance, at the Chandler Plaza Hotel, there's only at least 57 people seen but we counted the 800 confirmed to die based on dialogue alone. We later did the same with the McClennon-Forster mercs reported by Lee Castle and his team; the airport bombings mentioned via TV in Day 6 and the plane crash at the start of Day 7. Before Day 3, we also assumed that there was at least one pilot in the plane crash of the diplomat in Day 2 even though it was, again, all special effects and done with not as many actors because let's be real, it's pretty pricey for any show or movie. If the death just simply wasn't shown at all and merely mentioned (Ex: Victor Rovner), I could understand that but this isn't the On-screen kills by Jack Bauer, this is primarily canon or confirmed kills for the entire show. I think the bloody remains on the wall are proof enough.--Gunman6 (talk) 19:18, February 3, 2013 (UTC) ::They're not proof enough. People can bleed without dying. No body was seen and his death was not confirmed by dialogue. There are plenty of possible scenarios where he wasn't killed - eg, someone tried to kill him but he escaped, he was captured to find out how much he had told Sherry, etc. etc.--Acer4666 (talk) 20:45, February 3, 2013 (UTC) :But, again, why would Milliken spare his life when Kelly violated the agreement and if he was already hesitant to go along with Sherry's plan, I don't see how it's possible that he would be ready to run out the door ASAP. Plus, if he had remained alive, he probably would've been connected in the whole scheme by authorities one way or the other and he was never brought up. Other than Marwan sparing Jason Girard and his partner in Day 4, the writers on this show often have the villains be merciless and based on the dreary mood and gritty tone of the music, I feel like it's reasonable enough. :Yes, there are many subplots that are forgotten on this show that are left open-ended but again if he had escaped, he would've probably run off to the police and there was no proof of that.--Gunman6 (talk) 07:48, February 4, 2013 (UTC) ::You're just speculating. Unless you're suggesting a policy change whereby we make decisions on people's statuses based on the "dreary mood and gritty music", his status will remain as unknown--Acer4666 (talk) 11:29, February 4, 2013 (UTC) :I'm going based on what the creators most likely intended and when did "he could've escaped" not sound like speculating?--Gunman6 (talk) 11:35, February 4, 2013 (UTC) ::Yes my speculation was to demonstrate to you the fact that your speculation is not the only interpretation. I'm not saying it did happen (as you are), just that it could have happened, therefore we leave the status as unknown. No confirmation was given either way, so the show creators left it unknown to the viewer what happened to him. They deliberately did not show a body, just some blood, and did not mention his fate.--Acer4666 (talk) 11:39, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Except this appears as more of a "killed in an unknown manner" type of moment. The show's creators typically don't dive into very small elements such as this but I really doubt this is the type of subplot that was just scrapped altogether (Ex: Bahrooz's fate in Day 4 where it's virtually impossible to tell if he was going to be killed off or just simply taken away). :I understand that you guys play it safe and that's fine but I believe this is more than just one of the leading villain's henchmen who are unaccounted for. --Gunman6 (talk) 11:45, February 4, 2013 (UTC) ::Remember, it seems like that to you. As I said above, there are many other interpretations. If it's fine that we're playing it safe, then, there's nothing more to be discussed--Acer4666 (talk) 11:49, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Yes, but this is playing it "too safe" and I discussed various moments but you guys decided that regardless of whether there's anything valid or invalid, it's going to remain the same which isn't how one properly debates. :I still offered up why he would be alive and have broken down every theory and it doesn't add up so it only makes sense if it's a death but "with an unknown killer". If it was someone presumably killed for an assassin to take their identity and sneak into a government building, that would make sense not to count it because there's no details to go on (Kevin Carroll's confirmed kill for instance was left out because we don't know when the time of death was). Here, we got a man who broke his promise not to snitch on Milliken, we have graphic blood on the wall and this man is never seen in a live state ever again.--Gunman6 (talk) 06:19, February 5, 2013 (UTC) That still doesn't mean he died. His body isn't like I said before. Just like Acer4666 said, he could have escaped. We haven't seen him anymore. It's all speculation. --Station7 (talk) 06:39, February 5, 2013 (UTC) :You have not broken down every theory. Your arguments are a mess of in-universe reasoning mixed with out-of-universe sentiments. You say that if he escaped he "probably" would have gone to police (so you yourself admit it's uncertain) and that it was "never brought up" in the show. I'm sick of saying it, but if we didn't see it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen in-universe. Perhaps he did go to the police, but the focus of the show moved on, which may be why it wasn't "brought up". And what would Kelly say to the police - "the guy that bribed into committing perjury on a police investigation is now trying to kill me". Talking about what the writers have done in the past is not in-universe evidence. :It's very simple, and breaks down like this: Unless you can provide proof that he died (visual, or through dialogue), we don't list him as deceased. I am no longer going to continue debating your half-baked theories. In case I have to state this again, remember that people can bleed without dying, so blood on the wall is not visual proof.--Acer4666 (talk) 11:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)